Paradox

Europe can't afford to pay for it's own defense because of it's entitlement obligations.

Europe relies on our defense spending for their security.

We are supposed to move towards a more European style entitlement system.

Who will protect Europe when we can't afford to protect ourselves... like the EU?

Russia? China? Persia... Iran? 

I'd really like to have that logic explained to me. Yeah world peace... with Kim Jong Un as the dictator. Do better than giving up our guns will magically cause everyone to be peaceful & happy share huggie bears.

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Comments (38)

  1. noahbody

    LOL! I dread the day…

    March 18, 2017
  2. SEC

    a definite logic disconnect in that thinking which is very scary

    March 18, 2017
  3. stevehayes13

    As a European I can assure you we do not want the US to protect us. Please feel free to take your military home so you can protect yourselves.

    March 18, 2017
    1. Munkyman

      Your nation is the only one that seems to take defense & your commitment to NATO any where nearly as seriously as we do. I am all for bringing our military home… I’d like to see the Korean War finished so we can come home from there too. I realize that GB is part of Europe, but I was really referring to the EU, it has a GDP & population very similar to the US & so the idea that it cannot afford to provide for their commitment while we must provide more than our commitment to make up for it is just… theft.

      March 18, 2017
    2. Munkyman

      It wasn’t that long ago that Germany was supposed to deliver supplies to Afghanistan (I think it was there) & they didn’t have a single air worthy craft to fulfill their obligation. Canada had a similar incident around the same time. That’s not taking their commitment seriously, I could see it if we were talking about Italy or Greece… Spain, they’re floating bankrupt. Germany & Canada were & are enjoying stronger economies than the US, arguably at our expense through tax advantages & currency manipulation. I don’t know enough to argue the currency manipulation aspect.

      March 18, 2017
    3. Brn2bfree

      I think you’re right Mr. Steve, we should take our military and get out. Save that money to increase our military and use it at a place where they like having a big brother to intimidate others. While you guys lose your identity with your desire for diversity and liberal madness, the Persians, Syrians or what ever will be there like the ‘Trojan’ horse and slit your throats while you’re sleeping. (figure of speech).

      March 18, 2017
      1. croker

        All I will say is have you forgotten BREXIT?

        March 19, 2017
        1. Brn2bfree

          Yes, isn’t that kinda mean… British Exiting the European Union?
          What does that have to do with the price of tea in Dublin?

          March 19, 2017
          1. Munkyman

            It really sounds like you favor being charged rent on military bases in Germany & paying for the privilege to stand guard there against an enemy that no longer exists.
            .
            Britain is sick of getting screwed by the bad deal that is the EU. They get a larger share of the burden & fewer rewards for their efforts, jobs have fled to cheaper labor markets in the EU, immigrants flock there for the benefits & Britain is refusing to be abused any longer.
            .
            Now you purport to be a nationalist & favor a strong defensive position, would you be happy to have a large contingent of German or British military here with their own bases & their own guns, tanks, jets, helicopters… missiles. I don’t think that’s in our best security interest & I don’t think the US having bases there is in Britain’s best interest any longer, it IS still in Germany’s best interest & the best interest of many other European nations because it enables them to make no sincere attempt at providing for their own commitments to defense. We go way over our commitment to NATO, Britain is the only other nation that even comes close to honoring theirs.

            March 19, 2017
            1. Brn2bfree
              Britain is sick of getting screwed by the bad deal that is the EU. They get a larger share of the burden & fewer rewards for their efforts, jobs have fled to cheaper labor markets in the EU, immigrants flock there for the benefits & Britain is refusing to be abused any longer.

              ~~~~~~
              America is getting sick of the UN in the same way.
              Btw, I understand what you mean with international waters.. but I feel having boots, machinery, and inteligence on the ground is important.

              March 19, 2017
            2. Munkyman

              Boots on the ground is expensive, unpopular & increasingly the very cause of an insurgency & an unwinnable scenario such as Afghanistan (for anyone ever). Intelligence operatives are not the same thing as maintaining military bases, they generally work through the State Dept & embassies when in the field. We don’t need tanks with Warthogs & Apaches… they can’t keep up as the front line advances at the speed of air combat. Ground work can be accomplished by drones dropped from C-137s like paratroopers. There is absolutely no reason to have a base anywhere we’re not actively engaged or using as a Naval refuel & resupply. The fact is we can respond to just about anywhere in the world in under 15 minutes with an ICBM nuclear, conventional, biological or chemical without any bases anywhere.
              .
              I’ve been sick of the UN & for the same reason, the EU has an economy the size of ours & a population about the same… it doesn’t contribute to the UN equally & don’t get me started on China & India their GDPs have soared, but their contributions have not.

              March 19, 2017
            3. Brn2bfree

              we can respond to just about anywhere in the world in under 15 minutes with an ICBM nuclear
              ~~~~
              Too late, you’re dead.

              March 19, 2017
            4. Munkyman

              No one can hit us any faster & with ships carrying missile defense systems… nuclear subs in the bays & rivers of those who concern us most, that time can be cut even shorter. Any attacks on the US mainland that require faster action will require armed citizens to resist it & they won’t have heavy military weapons. If Germany “dies” in less than 15 minutes because they didn’t defend themselves & we weren’t standing around waiting to die with them… that’s their problem.

              March 19, 2017
          2. croker

            You clearly don’t understand exactly what BREXIT means.

            March 19, 2017
            1. Brn2bfree

              Why don’t you clearly explain to me?
              BR-EXIT… Keep it simple.

              March 19, 2017
            2. wirelessguru1

              Go ahead and tell US what it means to you then?

              March 19, 2017
      2. Munkyman

        We don’t need or have a constitutional mandate to put our lives & treasure at risk for those who appreciate a big brother. Big Brother is not our role, we were built to be a beacon not a bat. Up to WWII Americans simply joined & fund raised for the wars they believed in as individuals, that seemed to work pretty well & is far more constitutional than using our taxes & military to prop up some nation that doesn’t care enough to provide for it’s own defense. As has been pointed out BREXIT & Steve here is a big proponent of BREXIT so why you feel the need to lash out with insults that don’t apply to him is beyond me. There is now a distinction between the EU (Europe) & Great Britain, uncontrolled immigration is in large part why.

        March 19, 2017
        1. Brn2bfree

          Big brother is not our role but it does turn out that way. We need to be in certain areas of Europe, Asia or where ever so that we are there in the event something happens. We can counter and strike at a closer range. It’s of strategic importance for US. We are doing it as a benefit for Us but they get the positive residual effect.
          .
          I guess people who don’t want US there don’t understand the fact that our military helps their local economy.

          March 19, 2017
          1. Munkyman

            We can counter strike from international waters, we don’t need a base anywhere. We need the most dominant navy in the world & the best missile defense systems in the atmosphere… because weaponizing space is illegal.
            .
            It’s turns out that way because some people know how to profit from it & don’t care what it costs the rest of us.

            March 19, 2017
    4. wirelessguru1

      European!? I thought that you were British!!!???

      March 18, 2017
      1. stevehayes13

        The British Isles are part of the continent of Europe.

        March 19, 2017
        1. wirelessguru1

          I thought that you exit it!

          March 19, 2017
          1. stevehayes13

            Exit geography?

            March 20, 2017
            1. wirelessguru1

              Well, you are already “separated” from the mainland (Continent) by a large channel of water.

              March 20, 2017
            2. Munkyman

              Today, during the Intelligence Committee Public Hearing, I actually heard a Congressman say that Britain voted to leave Europe instead of the EU, so I think you’re going to hear a lot more of that. I know how that would annoy me if I were in your place.

              March 20, 2017
  4. magnocrat

    Europe can, and should protect itself but if it fragments the weaker outer nations will not be able to do so. Ask yourself can we sit by while a stronger power takes over? Who will they next have in their sights. What if Hungary falls again? Everyman for himself maybe a dangerous policy , freedom where ever it is, needs protection if it cannot protect itself.

    March 18, 2017
    1. Munkyman

      If it cannot… sure, if it “will” not… we all make choices we must live with.

      March 19, 2017
  5. wirelessguru1

    You need to wait till next week (France) to see what is going to happen to Europe.
    But based on Merkel’s visit yesterday, they look very weak right now.

    March 18, 2017
  6. EyeVey

    It’s like a giant game of Risk.

    March 19, 2017
    1. Munkyman

      Except I’m never going to own Kamchatka

      March 19, 2017
  7. EyeVey

    Doesn’t Europe need babies? The birth rate had been dropping and the median age had been rising. Now with the burden of the millions and millions of refugees to support…median age lower among The refugees and birth rate much higher, I wonder what this portends…

    March 20, 2017
  8. croker

    for BRN and Wireless – BREXIT is a reaction and a move away from what BRN terms diversity and liberal madness – is that simple enough for you?

    March 20, 2017
    1. wirelessguru1

      It is a lot more than that!
      It is independence for the UK once again.

      March 20, 2017
      1. croker

        It is but I was particularly addressing the comment by BRN

        March 20, 2017
        1. wirelessguru1

          No. You suck.

          March 20, 2017
        2. croker

          jaydenblue – you need to get out of the playground – how about trying to put together a mature and reasoned discourse other than stating an individual sucks.

          March 21, 2017